ViVid Strike! Ep 10

[ViVidTrans] Vivid Strike! - 10 (1280x720 x264 AAC).mkv_thumbs_[2016.12.07_19.52.14].jpg

In true sports anime fashion, we can’t conclude a climactic battle without a flashback. Remember that time Subaru had to fight the mind-controlled Ginga? It’s kinda like that.

[VividTrans] ViVid Strike! – 10 (BS11 1280×720 x264 AAC)

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48 Responses to ViVid Strike! Ep 10

  1. 4th Dimension says:

    I would like to note that we are arguing about things for which the explanations are basically non existent and I’m pretty sure the writers never thought of.
    Why run the analyser? To save time that would have been wasted by applying the MidChildan solver on an problem that might not be MidChildan. Especially since even with humans doing the breaking, breaking barriers (I will assume that they are similar in a way to bindings) and such does take time and power. Again considering their computing power, I don’t see it as particularly long running task to first check if the barrier the equations are MId. If they are run the Mid solver, if not run through the hundreds of known styles (probably in descending likelihood of encounter).

    But then again none of these are particularly strong arguments either way so I will be conceding the point even though I still find it strange.


  2. Carthienes says:

    It might also be worth pointing out that literal libraries have been written on the correct design of Expert Systems, with a number of contradictions and debates that we are in no position to resolve. Just take my word for it that a thorough analysis of all possibilities is not necessarily the best opening move, even assuming it is what we would call an expert system.

    A more detailed look at what they should have done / did do would require actually knowing what happened, and a lot more details on how this all works and how close the analogy of modern Earth computing and mathematics is for magic and Mid-Childan technology. There are likely to be some significant differences at the low level, at the very least.

    Best we can say is that the situation was over fairly swiftly, and they did get the right answer eventually (Though we do not know which answers they got when). I also wonder about the parallels to Fate’s barrier in the previous season, which was Mid-Childan and took 10 days to beat (Though they were admittedly distracted at the time). Maybe it being Belkan wasn’t the only problem?


  3. 4th Dimension says:

    Could be, considering that Shamal’s specialty are these “barriers”.


  4. Carthienes says:

    Well, that took longer than expected. I can tear through these things quite quickly if I’ve the time…

    Anyway, I finished the Strikers Anime and Manga – side by side, I was trying to work through the collection chronologically. Initial thoughts:

    Graphically matches the previous two seasons, maybe a little lighter at times, with a smoother (perhaps more experienced?) animation. Much more consistent overall, though stave thickness can be a bit erratic.

    Seems a little old-fashioned for the sci-fi feel they’re trying to project, at times (oh well, nothing compares to Belka falling though ‘Advancing Over-Technology’ in the age of the crossbow).

    Nice to see the aces maturing well – I’m glad they skipped to after Hayate left the wheelchair, but they might have overdone it (although implying that dimension-shattering incidents happen every few months is no better)

    Too many Characters, not enough time – These two go hand in hand. We don’t get enough characterisation from many of the new characters, and old character cameos rarely do them justice. They also skipped a few.

    Don’t like the new look for personal barriers (though, to be fair, that first appeared in Signum and Fate’s dessert fight in A’s)

    The extras say that knight’s and summoner’s devices don’t help remembering and calculating spells (assisting in other ways), making both awesome by analysis as well! Might explain why Caro prefers to invoke with her spells with the full aria.

    Why did the TSAB not mass-produce some sort of drone (like the obstacle autospheres, perhaps) for ground support?

    Episode 3 of season is not the only time searcher spells came up before the finale of StrikerS – just the last time we definitively saw them moving. “Observation-type (i.e., static) Searchers” featured in the first episode of Strikers, and there was mention of the in others.

    Helicopter rather than hovercraft seems odd – perhaps more fuel efficient?

    In short? I’d rather not pick favourites between the first three seasons. StrikerS still brings tears to my eye and (I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again) that puts it leagues ahead of Strike.

    Despite the desperate pretence in the title.


  5. 4th Dimension says:

    Oh boy StrikerS. I’m currently engaged in a prolonged slogging war in a forum where I’m trying to explain why I like the StrikerS, while the prevailing opinion seems to be it’s shit. The document I’m basing my defense of my feeling for it is ridiculously long. ~30 pags of unfinished thoughts on StrikerS + as many pages of episode notes. I think I’m 20 pages in.

    So let me try to condense my thoughts on it. I like the StrikerS despite seeing massive flaws with it. I like it like I like the rest of the franchise because for me Nanoha is not so much as fanservice Lolis beating the shit out of each other, which is 7 Arcs’s direction, as a wired combination of military SF, magi tech supported SF that is rule heavy and almost details first rather than drama first, optimistic stories with determinator heroes which are entertaining on their own and antagonists that have sympathetic reasons for being antagonistic. And sentimentality towards Nanoha being explicitly an Air Mage and liking open blue skies. Most of which has been stripped from later issues making me dislike them.

    How does the StrikerS stack up? Well the protagonists are still moment to moment interesting in how they bounce off each other. On the magitech aspect, it’s still at least trying even though I do not like some of the choices made in order to introduce gun looking intelligent devices (why shaped like guns WITH gun barels?) etc. But as I said they are at least trying to make the setting work within the rules. The military aspect is so so, and that is moslty because Hayate was majorly shafted performance vise in this and never really gets a chance to show off command. Hell nobody except Teana at times gets that since again most of the fights devolve into 1v1 duels because I think 7 Arcs does not really know how to choreograph many vs many fights. On the other hand while Hayate does not do the commanding she does seem to have the respect of her subordinates who treat her as their commander and not a girl (which is more than some Anime do).

    Where StrikerS is hurt the most is in the story department. I’m now pretty damn sure that the original story that they intended to tell was a much more detailed affair, probably because of how much they were able to cram into A’s they thought that with twice as many episodes they could do much more. About half way through they realized that there was no way in hell they could pull it off even in 20+ episodes so someone went in with a hatchet and bloodily hacked away at the script until it still contained what their core demographic wanted, young girls beating each other, and could fit into the allotted time.

    All of this is reflected in the character arcs and stories in the show itself where the lot of them were cut or simplified, and now only Teana, Nanoha, Vita and sort of Subaru have any arcs in it and even those have been cut down. Vice and Fate sort of get a 12th hour issues that they then resolve in the final fight.
    Hayte is probably the biggest example of character shafting considering it was her idea to organize the unit, she was supposed to be fighting a political inter department battle with Regius and especially Auris, basically dealing with the dark side of TSAB. Along the way is seems she was supposed to have done something out of line in order to achieve her goals. That is shown by her final scene in the show where she notes how Regius reminds her of herself and how she too went over the line in pursuit of her ideals. None of which, except the mentioned final scene, happens in the show itself and she is devolved to having a bunch of pointless meetings with Chrono, Carim and Verossa whcih restate things we either know or suspect. Now the character interactions are still fun, but the meetings have little to no content.

    Signum did receive massively less time than Vita. But then again working Signum into the story would always be problematic since she is a stoic and therefore has no issues to solve, so her not appearing much unless RF6 is fighting is okay in my book. Initially I think her story line would tie in more heavily with Agito, but all that was left of that is that Agito I think lost control as Signum came close to her during Zest vs Vita fight and her actions in the finale.

    Fate… basically did nothing since like Hayate her investigative side never got a chance to get of the ground because nearly all of it was cut or relegated to Acous who resolved it all via Acous ex Machina. Also to give her something they gave her Caro and Erio, who are seriously underdeveloped and to me feel tacked on to give Fate he own Forwards to mentor since Teana and Subaru were under Nanoha. It would have been more appropriate for Teana to be mentored by Fate and Subar by Nanoha given their personalities and inclinations.

    Oh fuck I went long again and I haven’t even gotten to the real problem with the show that gets me mad. So I’ll speed up.

    Subplots of the protagonists that actualy get them are considerably simpler than they initially were supposed to have been, and Teana’s one is in the end the most interesting. Moving on.

    The antagonists. The antagonists are the real problem with StrikerS. At leas the primary antagonist, Jail and Numbers. Unlike the previous seasons where the antagonists were people who while wrong had somewhat sympathetic reasons for their actions (even Prescia) Jail is simply an onedimensional monster causing mayhem for his own benefit, and to do that he brings an entire legion of similary looking Numbers that when you watch the show for the first time all belnd together. I NOW know them and know their names, but when I watched for the first time they were utterly impenetrable. So Jail is an onedimensional monster, Quatro is a bitch and the rest maybe apart from Cinque and Nove get allmost no characterization and apart from Dieci never even show an ounce of regret at what they do. And as far as Dieci is concerned sh isn’t a saint either. Basically they all are unsympathetic and dont’ have anything interesting going on. And Sein is a brute force tool by the writers to enforce story status quo and literaly give the antagonists get out of jail cards.
    Lutecia is bland also, which is unsurprising considering her opponents are Caro and Erio who aren’t much better.
    The only characters that even resemble the previous seasons antagonists are Regius and Zest. And their and Regius’s subplot are given the least amount of time, but even with that little time they are infinitely better than Jails entire plot.

    Fight wise it focuses more on Forwards who are ground mages but we still get nanoha blasting things and fighting in the skies so while I want more I’m satisfied there.

    TLDR: Magitech: 4; Military SF: 3; Jail&Co: 1; Zest/Regius: 3,5; Protagonists: 4; Optimism 4.
    It could have been much better if enough time was given to interesting plots. In the end the number of protagonists was not so much of an issue rather than lack of proper antagonists.


  6. 4th Dimension says:

    Now actually to reply to you and now vent my issues:

    Actually graphically the things are so so. The graphics gets the job done, but you probably like me watched StrikerS from later DVD releases and not initial TV ones, and DVDs did a LOT to smooth out loads of graphical glitches. And still they are present. For example do these people indubitably look to you as Fate, Nanoha and Teana?
    Still the graphics are usable.

    SF wise they do seem to have downgraded the SF compared to the level of advancement shown in A’s. I would have expected for the fights to be happening among mile high skyscrapers with flying cars all over the place and such given that TSA does have anti gravity/hover tech.
    Some of it is explainable by the fact that they mostly fight in that abandoned section and not in downtown Clangan, but still.
    And yeah it’s nowhere near the level of stupit of sowing Belkans using crossbows and bludgeoning each other with swords in metal armor when they are supposed to have access to long ranged mass weapons.

    So armed devices and boosters (I think that is the name for summoner devices?) are even less advanced than storage devices? Strange. I would understand it for armed devices given that they are copies of old Belkan designs, but why do that with summoner devices. Wierd.

    The writer’s haven’t thought of that, or the prevailing doctrinal opinion was that such machines would be seriously inferior to actual mages while needing a lot more logistical support. Also given how much taboo the mass based weapons are, developing autonomous machines that could take down mages might be getting too close to the mass weapons ban.
    On the other hand the TSA Council WAS developing drones for TSA use via Jail so they did see advantages to using them. Why weren’t they given to TSA once they were operational. Well for one Jail seems to have been tweaking them still for the entire length of the incident, and they were not given to TSA rank and file for the same reason they were trying to supress the teaching of anti-AMF techniques, probably so that thse techniques would not profieate before the Cyborgs are introduced.

    The helicopter is probably the most egregious example to ridiculously low tech solutions given the tech base of the TSA. Also it’s the award winner of 4th Dimension “Stupidest deign award”. It’s so stupid it makes my head hurt. Why stupid 4th Dimension? it’s stupid because unlike the writers I know how helicopters operate and they NEED two rotor blades. No the secondary rotor blade is not for coolness sake, it makes sure the helicopter does not spin out of control the first time it tries to take off when action and reaction in the blade-engine system tries to start rotating the helicopter itself along the same axis the blade is rotating around. The rear rotors or aditional counter rottating main rotors are there to prevent that by applying a force in the opposite direction.
    Basically the first time RF6 heli took off it should have spun out of control and crashed. But 4th Dimension they could be using magic to stabilize it. True, but why do it via magic when mechanical rear rotor works just as well and is possibly cheaper. If you are going to be using magic that much why use the main rotor at all. Also the boxy design, is clearly meant to evoke the image of sturdy military workhorse, but just makes me think TSA engineers have yet to master aerodynamics.
    Oh and since it uses rotor blades that would inevitably make it less efficient and slower than a winged design, making it only useable for action close to the base.


  7. Carthienes says:

    It seems we have a long discussion ahead.

    The Helicopter in episode 1 – 2 was aerodynamic, and did have a tail-rotor, so Mid-childans are clearly not ignorant of the concepts. There are also other ways of counteracting the torque (I am, likewise, aware of this problem) – reaction wheels immediately spring to mind., though dual rotors are certainly more efficient. Your point about fixed-wing craft is likewise well taken, though helicopters have their own advantages and so fill a different niche – a niche that could probably be taken by anti-gravity hovercraft, which is what I was comparing them too (guesstimates thereof, anyway). There are certainly examples of ‘Old Fashioned’ technologies still in use today when high-tech variants are available. For a number of reasons, obviously, ranging from cost of replacement to simple nostalgia, but sometimes the older technology fills the particular niche better (there is a good reason why automatic doors are all fitted with manual overrides).

    The low tech solutions of TSAB took me by surprise, at first, but did not really get in the way or threaten to break immersion. It just seems a little jarring when juxtaposed with the teleporter in TSAB Headquarters. At least they kept the Holoscreens.

    Armed Devices and Boost Devices: they get mentioned in the extra’s you linked back in the episode 6 discussion:

    To quote the relevant sections:
    Armed Device:
    The Magical Devices of the Belkan Knight are, for the most part, styled as Weapons. Unlike Mid-Style Devices they offer little to no support in the use of Magic, on the other hand they are extremely robust weapons. While Shamal’s KlarWind is the opposite, that is because she is not a Combatant, as her role is that of Logistical Support.

    A Boost Device, specializing in Mana augmentation, manufactured for Caro’s use. Scrapping the complex magic support functions found in regular devices, Kerykeion boosts Caro’s own Mana, and specializes in releasing it in the most suitable form for the task at hand. Kerykeion was tuned with two main points in mind: to reduce the amount of Mana needed during Summoning, and to strengthen Boost magic. Regarding its AI, Kerykeion is relatively amenable. In the words of the master devicer Shario, the Lightning Squad devices are “pretty similar in personality to their users”.

    I do not think they are ‘less advanced’ than storage devices (I recall seeing that the average AIon an armed device is midway between a storage device and an Intelligent device), they just have a completely different focus. It’s like claiming that a submarine is less advance than a biplane, because the former can not transport it’s passengers through the air.

    Regarding the Graphics, and recognising the characters – The only returning character I do not remember instantly recognising when watching for the first time was Chrono. Everyone else was new. That said, I believe the version I managed to find is based off the TV version (though the only difference I actually know between the two is the floor cracking under Nanoha’s foot in the DVD version, just before she gives Quattro what’s coming to her). The artwork is quite consistent throughout, which was good (my biggest gripe with the previous two seasons being the way characters’ appearance could depend greatly on the angle they where viewed at). It also seems quite close to the earlier seasons, as if the artists had their rough edges worn down rather than starting from scratch. Or, to put it another way, as if the lense we are peering through to view this universe has slowly increased in clarity, rather than being pointed elsewhere.

    I suppose the underlying message here is – It Still Feels Like Nanoha (& co.) (& her universe). Not some other place, like some supposedly Nanoha stuff would later present.

    This is getting quite long, so I’ll cut it short for now. Hope this much made sense, & more later.


  8. 4th Dimension says:

    Those would need to be some pretty big or pretty quick reaction wheels to counteract the rotor toque. But the would also need to be able to stop counteracting when the pilot wants to turn the heli while in hover (in flight this is not necessary since a) the aerodynamic forces are keeping the body on the straight and narrow b) the helicopter flies pretty much like an airplane with it’s rotor blade acting as a sort of a wing), so I don’t think they are nearly as practical.

    Sure the old tech is sometimes more usefull, often when you need a rugged “workhorse” type of solution. But the way Vice drooled all over it when he introduced the heli, you would have thought it was a top of the line bleeding edge model.

    Oh I remember those other ones that appeared in episode 1. The fact that those do use twin rotor blades kind of makes this worse. Although I guess if I wanted to trust the writers on this it might be that RF6 heli is top of the line model precisely BECAUSE it doesn’t have the rear rotor which is often the weak spot of such heli designs.

    Apparently and according to some of that background material, a LOT of TSA tech actually runs simply on electricity and batteries without much in a way of strictly magical components. That is how they get around the problem of giving tehc to the non magically gifted. But electricity itself is produced via magic somehow making it nonpolluting. So that means Cardiche (Fate’s car) and such are probably electric.
    Devices: I thought they were less advanced because you mentioned that they couldn’t remember spells and such, because that is something storage devices can do. The real difference between storage and intelligent ones is that the intelligent ones have an AI that can act without their master’s input or perform tasks independently form their master. Which is something that was shown multiple times.
    The armed devices meanwhile are halfway between intelligent and storage ones. I don’t think we have ever seen them act on their own, but they do seem to have a very limited AI or VI capable of following orders. Which makes sense because science had to have progressed in some ways beyond what was available in Belkan ages, and development of actual AIs and their usage in devices could be one of those.
    I’m not saying that the designs changed between seasons. Well some things did but that’s because time passed and people changed. What I was refering was the fact that some of the art can be off template during the show itself. In the examples I gave Nanoha frankly looks more like Alto to the point I had to rewind and check if it really was Alto. The fact that Nanoha seemingly doesn’t have any rank insignia did not help. Same goes for Teana and Fate in that shot frankly could be mistaken for a boy. And believe me, I have seen examples from the original TV version of the show and there were a lot WORSE art snafus.
    Yeah. Despite it’s massive flaws it’s still Nanoha. That is my opinion too. While I would not have minded at all seeing a season set into the intervening decade, that would help hammer in the idea that the three are actually Aces (especially Hayate, girl really needs a time to shine). Because as is we are left to trust the writers that they are respected as Aces in TSA without seeing much of why that is.
    BTW: This might interest you. You know how there were those Nanoha games published on PSP? Well for the first one at least parts of were translated in text form, so recently when I played it on emulator I added those subtitles to the gameplay and now you can watch the Battle of Aces story subtitled in English here:
    Frankly the translation is a bit hit and miss ate times, and while it’s not terribly deep it does have some nice moments. For me Hayate’s path was most interesting, simply because it let’s her be cool for once.


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